Wishful Pete Rock Full-Length Collaborations
Friday January 11th 2008,
Filed under: Guest Drops, Lists, P.R.A.S., This Is Hip Hop

Floodwatch: The inclusion of a Pete Rock-produced cut on some of the more prominent hip hop releases in the ‘90s was often the highlight of the record, and usually tended to trigger a response something along the lines of, “Why couldn’t the entire album be like this?” Following the split with partner CL Smooth in the middle of the decade, Rock made some questionable moves in regard to where to focus his talent – strikingly mediocre solo artists (Deda), passive MCs with no presence whatsoever (InI), and talentless thugs (YG’z) – then would contribute only a track or two to more reputable artists’ records. It’s clearly not my place to judge the man’s artistic intentions back then, but with this sort of pattern, frustration was inevitable among many listeners and fans. So in the same spirit of that rumored full-length Primo/Nas collaboration that heads still dream about, From Da Bricks‘ Dan Love and I will indulge ourselves in a spell of wishful thinking in this installment of the P.R.A.S. (Pete Rock Appreciation Society), presenting ten MCs whose careers could have been drastically changed by an album manned entirely by the Chocolate Boy Wonder, with the year of preference for the release date.

Pete Rock

Dan Love: My problem in approaching this particular task is that I’m so manically obsessed with all things Soul Brother that picking just five dream match-ups is almost impossible. Like Premier, Pete Rock has the uncanny ability to make even the weakest of MCs sound good, but I’m attempting to reign myself in here and select those that I genuinely feel could have carried the weight of a full-length collaboration at some stage in their career. The process hasn’t been easy, and the sense of rousing excitement as collaborations started to take shape in my mind was rapidly cut short by the sinking realization that these ideas will forever dwell in the realms of fantasy. Man, I wonder why I put myself through these things sometimes…

AZ
Year: 1995

FW: As the only MC to guest on Illmatic (1994), Brooklyn’s AZ had a considerable amount of weight on his shoulders to deliver a solid first album. Doe or Die (1995) certainly didn’t disappoint (it has aged remarkably well over the years), but it was hardly surprising that Rock produced arguably the two best tracks on the record: the gorgeous, laid-back “Gimme Yours” and AZ’s statement of intent “Rather Unique.” With respect to L.E.S., Buckwild, and DR Period, who all contributed fine productions to the album, AZ’s distinctly high-pitched flow and Mafioso fantasies were given an extra breath of life by the colors in Rock’s stumbling drums and keys. Had Rock taken him under his wing and helmed the entirety of Doe or Die – well, the possibilities would certainly be worth pondering for years.

“Rather Unique” – AZ 4:49 (Doe or Die, EMI 1995)

Das EFX
Year: 1993

DL: Although there is never going to be any doubting the lyrical impact that Drayz & Skoob had on the hip hop scene at the beginning of the ‘90s, I think it’s questionable to state that they ever managed to put together a truly classic album (see Flood’s assessment of the topic in our previous Pete Rock collaboration post). With Dead Serious (1992), the onus was clearly on the Brooklyn duo’s lyrical prowess, and as such the beats were perhaps somewhat of an afterthought, basic yet effective platforms to display a new and exciting way of approaching the mic.

However, my suggestion for a little Pete Rock intervention doesn’t come at this stage, but rather a year or so later in replacement of their Straight Up Sewaside (1993) LP. Given that their lyrical originality had now been subsumed by a plethora of other artists who had ‘borrowed’ from their style, the crew needed some production of true quality to set themselves apart, and yet the beats to be found on their sophomore effort fall distinctly into the realms of mediocrity for me. The “Jussumen” remix proves how fantastic the pair sound over a denser and more organic sound, and had it been the blueprint for the always-difficult follow-up album, who knows what the results could have been. Don’t forget to take into account that Pete was firing on all cylinders in ‘92/’93, churning out remixes that still stand up as some of the greatest ever committed to wax, and the combination of his work during this period with the playful lyrical gymnastics of Drayz and Skoob could have been awe-inspiring.

“Jussumen (Pete Rock Remix)” – Das EFX 4:45 (Mic Checka 12″, EastWest 1992)

Freddie Foxxx
Year: 1998

DL: Plagued by label strife with his sophomore release Crazy Like A Foxxx, Freddie Foxxx missed out on the opportunity for a full-length mid-90s drop, forcing him to maintain his rep through guest verses on other’s work. This is a real shame, as this particular period of time in the genre’s development would have offered up the perfect backdrops for his ferocious and unforgiving style of rhyme. Glimpses of what this collaboration could have promised can be found on the Industry Shakedown (2000) LP under the Bumpy Knuckles guise, where Rock contributed no less than three beats, each of which easily held its own amongst an all-star production line-up that included Premier, Diamond and Alchemist. “Bumpy Knuckles Baby” is my preferred cut of the three, with tightly tuned snares and jangling keys providing a well-judged combination of grit and melody that suits Foxxx to a tea. For Freddie’s sake I would have liked to have placed this a little earlier in the decade, but in terms of a collaboration with Pete Rock, 1998 would seem to be the perfect moment for these two giants to work together, with The Chocolate Boy Wonder already incorporating a harder-edged angle to his smoother, soul-entrenched aesthetic of the early ‘90s (think “Tru Master” or “Tha Game” from the Soul Survivor [1998] LP). The vision here is of a street album full of Foxxx’s inimitable swagger counterbalanced by Pete Rock’s more soulful production tendencies: sounds good doesn’t it?

“Bumpy Knuckles Baby” – Freddie Foxxx 4:03 (Industry Shakedown, KJAC 2000)

Inspectah Deck
Year: 1998

FW: Here’s how it should have played out ten years ago: coming off the success of Wu-Tang Forever (1997) – on which he contributed the finest verses of his career, reigning supreme on every track he blessed – the Rebel INS grows impatient with RZA’s new keyboard-based approach to beatmaking and Bobby Digital (1998) distractions. Dissatisfied with the scattershot RZA tracks and the fruits of the Wu-satellite producers that would comprise Uncontrolled Substance (1999), Deck offers Pete Rock the opportunity to produce the record in the same template as “Trouble Man,” his lone contribution to the album. While Wu diehards are sent into an uproar over the absence of the Wu abbot, the resulting full-length is nonetheless a smashing success, as Deck’s signature metaphors and endless alliteration are a perfect match for Rock’s rhythmic soundscapes. On “Trouble Man,” note how the Soul Brother offers a fresh perspective on Isaac Hayes’ “Joy” riff, slicing it up into syncopated microfragments, then layering the chalky piano from Curtis Mayfield’s “Give Me Your Love” atop for the chorus, which also appropriates Sade’s “Paradise.”

“Trouble Man” – Inspectah Deck 5:05 (Uncontrolled Substance, Loud 1999)

Jeru the Damaja
Year: 1997

DL: Whatever situation caused the rift between Primo and one of Brooklyn’s finest ever MCs, there’s no doubt that Jeru’s career suffered without the weight of a top level producer behind him. Although Heroz4Hire (1999) was a decent enough record with some standouts, imagine how much better it could have been with a master behind the boards. Envisage the scene: with Premier cutting ties with Jeru, in steps The Chocolate Boy Wonder to pick up the pieces and fill the void to swiftly push out a third album to follow Wrath of the Math (1996). Not only could it have been one of the greatest three album runs by any single artist in the genre, I’m confident that the results would have been truly slammin’ in their own right.

Having never worked together on an album, the only evidence we have for this particular scenario’s success is the remix of “You Can’t Stop The Prophet” that Rock blessed Jeru with earlier in his career. Despite the difficultly of removing yourself from Primo’s original mix, there’s no denying the coherence of Rock’s production and Jeru’s vocals, and a whole album where the two worked in close conjunction would have been truly captivating.

“You Can’t Stop The Prophet (Pete Rock Remix)” – Jeru the Damaja 5:03 (You Can’t Stop the Prophet 12″, Payday 1995)

K-Solo
Year: 1994

FW: Despite a gimmickry penchant for spelling out his rhymes, K-Solo was one of the early ‘90s’ most underrated MCs and a bit of an anomaly in EPMD’s Hit Squad. His rapid-fire cadence and seemingly infinite arsenal of battle rhymes contrasted sharply with the rugged blunt haze of Redman and the faddish wordplay of Das EFX. When the crew dispersed in early ’93 following the split between Erick and Parrish, K-Solo headed out West to affiliate himself with Dre’s Death Row Records, working behind the scenes and nurturing artists like Canibus. My change to the course of history? Solo would have remained in New York and hooked up with Pete Rock (who provided the MC with the beat for his last single “Letterman”) and turned out a universally-acclaimed classic third record, making K-Solo a household name. The harder-edged productions on The Main Ingredient (1994) (“Worldwide,” “I Get Physical”) and Rock’s remix work at the time would have been an ideal foil for Solo’s devastating verbal attacks.

“Letterman” – K-Solo
3:20 (Time’s Up, Atlantic 1992)

O.C.
Year: 2000

DL: With one classic album under his belt and a sophomore effort that neatly averted the dreaded slump, Omar Credle seemed like he might just be one of the most consistent players in the mid to late ‘90s rap game. Unfortunately, the spark was gone by 2001’s Bon Appetit, and despite a highly credible production roster the album is one best forgotten.

Instead, let’s get Pete on the boards. In the run-up to 2000 Mount Vernon’s finest would have been putting together beats for the yet to drop instrumental tour de force Petestrumentals (2001), a release that categorically proved that he still had skills in abundance come the turn of the millennium. Paired up with O.C.’s consistent lyrical finesse, the results could have been jaw-dropping. The fantastic ‘Respect Mine’ from Soul Survivor gives us a flavour of how the combination may have sounded, with Rock forging an infectious, hypnotic beat that is perfectly balanced by O.C.’s tone and cadence. The thought of this one gives me goosebumps…

“Respect Mine” – Pete Rock ft. O.C.
4:06 (Soul Survivor, Loud 1998)

Rakim
Year: 1994

FW: His skills on a microphone are indisputable. He has contributed more quotable lyrics and verses to the hip hop vernacular than arguably any other MC. His singles, billed with partner Eric B., are timeless. Yet what many overlook is the fact that the god Rakim never dropped a solid, front-to-back full-length banger in an era (’88 – ’92) when it seemed like a classic was hitting the streets every month. Taking a note from the jazzier, Soul-inflected productions on Don’t Sweat the Technique (1992), Rakim could have connected with Rock to oversee the musical fodder for his next project after splitting with Eric B. Think of the possibilities: Ra’s breathy, dry baritone would sound heavenly over one of Rock’s sleigh bell- and horn-laced concoctions, with tempos rarely dipping below the 110 bpm range – except for the two “for the ladies” tracks, of course, in the vein of “Lots of Lovin’” or “Mahogany.” The two wouldn’t cross paths until Rakim’s ‘comeback’ record of sorts, the generally well-received The 18th Letter (1997), of which Rock contributed two outstanding cuts among legends like Premier and Clark Kent. Ah, one can only dream.

“When I’m Flowin’” – Rakim
5:04 (The 18th Letter, Universal 1997)

Sadat X
Year: 1996

FW: Sadat X’s spotty solo career has been troubled by a myriad of issues, chief among them the fact that, Diamond and Buckwild excluded, the Bronx MC has rarely come across a producer who is capable of complementing his irregularly-pitched flow and unique delivery. Naturally, Pete Rock is a third exception, and for proof look no further than “Escape from New York” on Sadat’s first solo venture Wild Cowboys (1996). The elegant piano and vibraphone loop is contrasted by a slamming drum pattern, with Sadat (and guest Deda) sounding more than thrilled to wreck shop over it. Imagine an entire album like this, with the MC and various guests – Puba would have to appear on a track or three to trade lines – committing this kind of gold to analog tape, with Rock spitting an occasional sixteen here and there and making an appearance on every chorus. The record would have a refreshingly laid-back, Sunday-afternoon-in-the-cipher-type vibe that would have been a diamond in the rough among the Bad Boy-bullshit that was polluting the airwaves in ’96.

“Escape from New York” – Sadat X feat. Deda 4:09 (Wild Cowboys, Loud 1996)

Sticky Fingaz
Year: 1997

DL: Of all five selections that I offer to you here, this is my wildcard. Although the thought of an entire album with the Onyx frontman and our boy Pete Rock is perhaps stretching the concept a little too far, there’s definitely something in this collaboration that could have worked well. The pair have crossed paths on a very limited number of occasions, but in the two instances that I know of there is a surprising coherence between the gruff delivery of everybody’s favourite kleptomaniac and Rock’s signature production style. This white label remix of “Shout” clearly demonstrates this, with Rock’s more laid back overhaul of the original keeping the overtly hardcore nature of Sticky and company in check. “Strange Fruit,” taken from the Soul Survivor LP, also provides a flash of what could have been and indicates the variation that could have been offered up by an album together, the beat’s darker, more sinister vibe working well with Sticky’s snarling sixteen bars. Granted, a full album together would have needed some interesting guest spots to avoid a sense of plodding monotony, but it’s interesting to ponder what could have been had Rock slipped out of his funk jacket for a minute and gotten seriously grimy.

“Shout (Pete Rock Remix)” – Onyx 3:47 (White Label, 199?)

“Strange Fruit” – Pete Rock ft. Tragedy Khadafi, Cappadonna & Sticky Fingaz 4:42 (Soul Survivor, Loud 1998)


13 Comments so far
Leave a comment

Whew, this is pretty exhaustive and a great idea.
I wish I was old enough to have appreciated all these tracks when they came out.
Fantastic work.

Comment by AaronM 01.11.08 @

Interesting premise but I don’t necessarily agree that any of these artists would have been suitable for a whole album produced by Pete Rock. Many of the songs you listed are great but other than AZ’s “Rather Unique,” none of these tracks can be said to contain perfectly complementary music and vocals. They were good for what they were; emcees ranging from competent to stellar getting busy over dope (but not anywhere near the best) Pete Rock tracks. Nothing more and nothing less. Speaking of which, you mention Deda and INI and the YGz as being mediocre arists or questionable collaboration choices, but all of them have songs that are just as good as any on this list. In particular, Deda’s “Nothing More” which is spectacular and not just because of the beats.

The only rapper that ever needed to collaborate with Pete Rock for a full-length was CL Smooth, and their two classic LPs attest to this.

Comment by R.H.S. 01.11.08 @

Some really great and interesting choices guys. Fantastic post.

Comment by Jeff 01.11.08 @

RHS - I don’t think Flood or I would ever contest that any of these match ups would come anyway near the timeless classics that are the two Rock & CL albums, but I think you’re wrong about only ‘Rather Unique’ showing a clear coherence between beat and rhymes. Although some of these are of course stretches of the imagination, I think that both the K-Solo cut and the Freddie Foxxx track demonstrate an equally pleasing sense of congruence.

I really dig the InI album, and feel that Flood’s assessment is a little harsh, but I still have serious reservations about Deda and the YGz enviable position of having substantial contributions from the Chocolate Boy Wonder.

Comment by Dan Love 01.12.08 @

I come to floodwatch for the smartest hiphop posts on the internet. This Pete Rock post is why I come. Great work.

Comment by Blind William 01.12.08 @

Damn good post, Dan! Damn good. What up, Flood?

One.

Comment by Dart_Adams 01.13.08 @

“Strange Fruit” is probably my second favorite joint on “Soul Survivor” after “The Game.” I never would’ve thought to pair Sticky with Pete Rock for a whole album, but with hard-ass drums and some eerie samples, it would’ve been wonderful.

What’s more impressive to me is that Pete has been more profilic and relevant the past 10 years than every single rapper listed on here.

Comment by Zilla Rocca 01.14.08 @

PETE WAS SUPPOSED TO DO AZ WHOLE FIRST ALBUM. HE NEEDS TO RELEASE THE FUTUREFLAVAS REMIXES. I WILL SAY IT EVERYWHERE AND ON EVERY BOARD. THESE ARE HIS HOTTEST REMIXES BUT SINCE HE IS SHADY HE WONT PUT THEM OUT FOR THE WORLD TO ENJOY. IVE HEARD SEVERAL AND THEY ARE BETTER THAN ANY OF HIS COMMERCIALLY RELEASED REMIXES. AND THERE ARE ABOUT 200 OF THEM. EVERYONE LOVES PETE BUT HE NEEDS TO PUT THIS OUT. IF YOUVE HEARD FUTUREFLAVAS YOU WOULD KNOW WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT.

Comment by ILLEST 01.16.08 @

I DONT CARE ABOUT SOME WISHFUL COLLOBORATIONS ANYWAY. BECAUSE IT WONT HAPPEN I KNOW ITS FUN TO DREAM THOUGH. BECAUSE HE HAS DONE JOINTS WITH BIZ (WAS SUPPOSED TO DO HIS WHOLE ALBUM TOO), REDMAN, KANE, E SERMON AND MANY MORE JOINTS THAT NEVER CAME OUT. THEY ARE JUST ON SOME FUCKIN DISKS AT HIS HOUSE. THATS BULLSHIT. PUT THEM IN MIXTAPE FORM AND RELEASE THEM.

Comment by ILLEST 01.16.08 @

I DONT MEAN TO SOUND BITTER OR LIKE AN ASSHOLE. IM NOT BITTER. I JUST KNOW THAT THE POINT OF MUSIC IS FOR IT TO BE HEARD. PETE ROCK SHOULD LEARN FROM JAYDEE WHO HAD NO PROBLEM PUTTING THINGS OUT. IF THE WORLD HEARD THE UNRELEASED AND REMIXES FROM HIS RADIO SHOW THAT HE DID WOW YOU WOULD BE EVEN MORE AMAZED.

Comment by illest 02.21.08 @

big fan of the future flavas days - and a true pete rock fan. Thanks for posting the onyx remix which I first heard on the future flavas show back in ‘96 but lost my tape and have been searching for years. Pete rock could have had even more impact had he done some the above menioned artitst entire albums…. his style has changed as well as his choice of productions instruments. We’ll keep dreaming though.

Comment by YWATTS 04.26.08 @

YO YWATTS YOU GOT ANY FUTUREFLAVAS SHOW ON TAPE? I HAVE A FEW. WHAT UP?

Comment by ILLEST 05.02.08 @

hola acceros chupa pijas los odios

Comment by agus 05.04.08 @



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